Re: General Lore Discussion

by **The Khan** Sat 17 Mar 2012, 2:51 am

Do we have any Modelers yet?

by **pROvAK** Sat 17 Mar 2012, 2:59 am

One, Le Grimacier. Check his temple model over in the M a T section.

by **The Khan** Sat 17 Mar 2012, 9:55 am

Oh, yeah, I've seen that. Looks good.

by **pROvAK** Fri 13 Apr 2012, 4:28 pm

hmm...I'm thinking a Jarl of a sort in each city would work well, If that is in the lore. Even if there is a "jarl" in each city, they most likely would not have much influence, considering how Elsweyr is a moderetly disorganized province. Chaotic. Frantic. Awesome.

by **Ryu Hayabusa** Fri 13 Apr 2012, 7:51 pm

Jarls are Skyrim so no, no Jarls. But we will need to contain leaders of some sort, correct.

by **pROvAK** Sat 14 Apr 2012, 12:10 am

Yeah, i just meant leaders. Jarls was just a word people understand Smile

by **Le Grimacier** Sun 15 Apr 2012, 10:35 am

What about Ra'Jah? In Ta'Agra, "Ra" is used for chiefs and "Jah" is for money, so it could mean something like "Rich Leader" or "He's the chief because he has money" or "His money makes him important".

by **Ryu Hayabusa** Sun 15 Apr 2012, 3:47 pm

That seems likely. Any more combinations that could mean some sort of leader?

by **Le Grimacier** Tue 17 Apr 2012, 6:23 am

Pakseech:
In the Imperial tongue, it means, roughly, 'clan chair' -- the seat of the clan patriarch. In the [Black Wood] Company, we use the term to mean 'leader' -- but it carries the sense of wise father, concerned for the welfare of the whole family.

by **Ryu Hayabusa** Tue 17 Apr 2012, 5:51 pm

Pakseech? sounds usable. Ra'Jah sounds...better but whichever applies better. Or both could be used. Pakseech for those leaders who care about the community, Ra'Jah for those leaders who are just rich and in charge.

by **Rattfink333** Tue 17 Apr 2012, 7:43 pm

blackwood company had a hist tree hid away. so wouldn't pakseech be argonian? or was it a khajiit using that?

by **Ryu Hayabusa** Tue 17 Apr 2012, 8:03 pm

Hmm. I knew it sounded oddly argonian.

by **Le Grimacier** Thu 19 Apr 2012, 6:01 am

Pakseech is used by a [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], so I guess it's a khajiit word. But the Blackwood company have been made by khajiits and argonians so they could used argonians words too. scratch

I don't know if Khajiits use generic title. They used the prefix "Ra" before a name to show a high status and the prefix "Ri" to designate a tribe leader.
In [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.], they called Wulfarth, the Ra'Wulfarth.
For example, "Ra'Virr" could mean something like "Virr the king [of traders]". It's a joke only understandable by Khajiits. Very Happy

It's things like that could make the khajiit culture unique.

Instead they could used "westerner titles" like gouvernor, king or potentate (for Rimmen) because there is no equivalent in Ta'agra. Having generic title and don't knowing the name of their leader could be something they called "gzalzi", an absurdity.

by **Ryu Hayabusa** Thu 19 Apr 2012, 4:50 pm

Ra...Okay. Grim, you are a very resourceful fellow and I thank you for this info! Seriously, I would have never been able to get this info myself. I'm not too resourceful with Khajiit lore.

by **Rattfink333** Sat 21 Apr 2012, 10:50 pm

the book the elsweyr confederacy used potentate for a leader designation for one of the city-states. So that is probably viable. At least for imperial dialog. We could use varying titles. like the Ra' one when khajiit speak of each other. And ones like potentate when imperials or other outsiders speak of such things.

by **Rattfink333** Sat 21 Apr 2012, 11:14 pm

Ryu Hayabusa wrote:Nope, it's VII. I went through chargen again for another round of Morrowind and the papers said Uriel VII. Unless my papers were changed by a mod...this seems so strange...for 65 years he has ruled The Empire but his predecessor is the ruler in Morrowind. HALP!!!

you may have figured out already, but uriel septim VII was emperor for the first four elder scroll games. skyrim is 200 yaers after oblivion. but arena through oblivion happened in about 50-60 years all told.

by **Ryu Hayabusa** Sat 21 Apr 2012, 11:34 pm

Yes to both.

by **The Khan** Tue 24 Apr 2012, 3:48 am

What about signs and stuff like that. Sign posts and banners. I can make a texture for a flag quite easily.

by **Le Grimacier** Sat 28 Apr 2012, 2:55 pm

Just for precision. From Interview with three booksellers:

Khajiti men show their status in life with their names, unless they choose a nickname. In Jobasha's case, as a "scholar," Jobasha uses "Jo" alone, not "S'basha-Jo," for using two titles shows great ignorance or great pride.
"M" or "Ma" means "child" or "apprentice" or, in the vernacular, "virgin." As an apprentice can be of any age, this leads to misunderstandings and jokes Jobasha cannot translate.
"J," Ji," or "Ja" means a bachelor or young adult. In the vernacular, it means one who is young and lacks experience.
"S" is the most common, and means simply an adult.
"Ra" and "Ri" show high status. "Ri" is the highest status among the Khajiit, used by leaders of cities or tribes.
"Dro" means "grandfather" and shows respect.

the so-called "kings" the cats set up in their cities in mockery of the Emperor

If I understand correctly, the Khajiits slaves you can find in Morrowind should be noble in Elsweyr if their name beginning with Ra and should be chiefs tribes if their name beginning with Ri.

by **Rattfink333** Sat 28 Apr 2012, 8:04 pm

Does the mane have any title other than mane?

by **Ryu Hayabusa** Sat 28 Apr 2012, 8:32 pm

I would doubt it. Grim might know more though?

by **Le Grimacier** Wed 02 May 2012, 6:18 am

I didn't found any other title. The Mane is just called the Mane. As it is written there is only one Mane at the time, perhaps Khajiits think its the same being who reincarnate over and over, so his name isn't important.
The only Mane who is named is Rid-T'har-ri'Datta who has restored peace during the Second Era and created the Riddle-T'har.

by **Ryu Hayabusa** Wed 02 May 2012, 8:06 pm

Merci Le Grimacier.

by **Ryu Hayabusa** Sun 17 Jun 2012, 9:15 pm

I am about to conduct a moon sugar posting spree. In other words, everyone can finally learn things they always wanted to know about it, in this post. I will update it with all that I have found so far on Moon Sugar and Moon-Sugar-Cane. (Which is all taken from past browsing in UESP and The Imperial Library.)

UESP:

Moon Sugar is an illegal and addictive drug found in sugar canes native to the Tenmar Forest of southern Elsweyr. Khajiit believe it to be a gift from the gods. The sugar is used in a variety of applications, most prominently as a seasoning, a magical ingredient, a recreational drug, and for communion with the holy moons. It is commonly refined into a more usable and more potent form known as Skooma. It should be noted that non-Khajiit are generally more susceptible to the effects of Moon Sugar and should avoid it.

TRADE

Moon Sugar is quite valuable and often smuggled throughout the Empire, but few shopkeepers are willing to buy it. Due to its illegal status, many shopkeepers in Morrowind will not do business with you if you are carrying Skooma or unrefined Moon Sugar. Khajiit merchants, however, have a particular fondness for Skooma and are often willing to purchase Moon Sugar, presumably to refine it themselves or trade it for Skooma. Criminals have attempted to grow Moon Sugar grasses in Vvardenfell, without success.
In Cyrodiil, Skooma abuse is not as widespread as in some of the other provinces, so few merchants will outright refuse to trade Skooma or unrefined Moon Sugar. However, both drugs are still frowned upon and much of the product exists via an underground market.

USE

Moon Sugar is most commonly refined into crystalline or liquid Skooma before use, but can be ingested orally when unrefined, or used in alchemical experiments.

IN KHAJIIT CULTURE
For the Khajiit, Moon Sugar carries an important religious meaning. Some beliefs hold that the sugar is crystallized moonlight caught in the water of the Topal Sea and brought to the sugarcane groves of the Tenmar by the force of the twin tides. By partaking of the sugar, Khajiit believe they are consuming portions of their gods' souls, which drive them into fits of ecstasy and abandon. Catmen shivering in the streets can be seen in most major cities in Elsweyr. The more dangerous derivative of the sugar, Skooma, is often smoked in its raw crystalline form by severely dependent users, who are said to experience constant states of euphoria and lethargy. Despite pressures from the Empire to curb the Moon Sugar trade, the drug remains an important part of any Khajiit's life and Elsweyr's primary export.

Moon sugar is a grainy powder of small white crystals refined from cane grasses of Elsweyr's coasts and estuaries. Used as a spice in Elsweyr, it has modest magical properties, and is also a potent narcotic, and illegal in Morrowind and the rest of the Empire. Criminals have attempted to grow moon sugar grasses in Vvardenfell, without success.

So far, it seems that the Moon Sugar cane grass would be found on the coast (Eastern? Western? Both?) and in the Estuaries ,or "Deltas" of Elsweyr. I think that the mouth of the Xylo river could be a hotspot.

by **Le Grimacier** Mon 18 Jun 2012, 2:11 pm

Only near the southern reaches does the soil turn fertile, and the whole of this region is covered in jungle and rainforests, with sugarcane groves clustering against the two main river basins. [the Xylo River and the Niben]

Symmetrical sugarcane gardens surround these palaces [in Torval]

There is sugarcane groves in all Pellitine. But I think sugarcanes don't like salted water. So you could find it near rivers, springs and lakes.

The khajiit understand it to be "crystallized moonlight," caught in the water of the Topal Sea and brought to the sugarcane groves of the Tenmar by the force of the twin tides.

It seems the moon-sugar can only be extracted from sugarcane in the Topal Bay. Maybe because the tides are said to be ruled by Hermaeus Mora but I think it's related to the Clan Mother who only know the secret of the transformation but I can't find the reference.
In game, you could find something like raw sugar or sirup in sugarcanes.

Concerning skooma, I think the Khajiit religion could see it as a corrupted form of the moon-sugar. Visions and feelings it gives are something "holy" with mystical meaning (and only for Khajiits) but from the skooma it's only madness (but for all!). That's why it's forbidden even in Elsweyr.

We Khajiit must climb, then, in a way men and mer cannot. And with us we carry the sugar of a star or a bone or a watery king. For if sugar is not worthy of a Walker, is it worthy of Ja-Kha'jay?

They speak of sugar as we might speak of the soul or the lifeforce.

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