Elsweyr religions

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Elsweyr religions

Post by Le Grimacier on Tue 12 Jun 2012, 7:36 am

Khajiits have their own religion. It will be difficult to use it because we don't have a lot of informations about it. And their religion is totally different from what we can find amongst men or elves, so we can't use them as inspiration. But I found three cults to use:

  • The Clan Mothers: It's a secretive cult made of khajiiti women. It seems you must be born as Clan Mother and be teached since the childhood so that won't be a joignable faction. They keep and teach the history of Elsweyr with tales. Only them can extract the moon sugar from the sugarcane and the process is known only by the Clan Mothers. They have many gods and Aedras and Daedras have the same divine status as the others. So I think, Clan Mothers can care about shrines dedicated to specific deities all around Elsweyr. The most important could be the Ja-Ka'jay, the Lunar Lattice.
  • The Riddle'Thar: The cosmic order deity of the Khajiiti, the Riddle'Thar was revealed to Elsweyr by the prophet Rid-Thar-ri'Datta, the Mane. It explains how Khajiits should behave. Its more a set of guideline than a single entity. It links every form of Khajiits with the moons phases and every Daedra (the Dro'Mathra) as an "inverted form" probably because they exist on the other side of the Lunar Lattice. The Riddle'Thar could have a common cult with temples and priests. The highest rank could be the Mane itself but the player will be able to become its representative. It is said that the Riddle'Thar can appear on the world as an avatar who looks like a humble messenger of the gods.
  • Imperial Cult: Imperials have imported their own cult but because Khajiits already worship the Eight Divines with the Clan Mother Cult, maybe we can do a Cult of Talos. Or the Khajiits could have blended the actual Emperor as an avatar of Talos in something like an Emperor Cult. I think as long as the imperials could have influence on the province they can accept this.

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Re: Elsweyr religions

Post by pROvAK on Mon 09 Jul 2012, 4:42 pm

If there isn't much lore on these cultures, that just means more for us to try to 'lore fit' and put some puzzle pieces together ourselves. The religions could actually be a huge impact on Outreach, and could lead to many quests and stories.

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Re: Elsweyr religions

Post by Le Grimacier on Mon 16 Jul 2012, 2:26 pm

If we take inspiration from other cultures as India, the Mane could be compared to a Pharaoh.
The Pharaoh is the child of the Heaven, born to bring harmony to the world. He's beloved by gods who give him advices and powers to fulfill his duty. He have to rule over two countries: a desertic one and a fertile one. By his existence, he bring the balance upon the lands that makes them rich and liveable. Without him, the world is dying because threatened by the Chaos. He has a divine soul but a mortal body so only him can understand how to rule the mortal world.
In their Temples, priests have powers only because they are representatives of the Pharaoh. During the rites they act as if they are the Pharaoh so his power could extend all over the country. Pharaoh is the bridge between Heaven and Earth. The wisdom he teaches is the way for peoples to access the divine.

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Re: Elsweyr religions

Post by Le Grimacier on Thu 28 Feb 2013, 6:48 pm

I've found a better idea for the Riddle'Thar: The Mane could also be a mix between Ghandi (for his pacifism) and a [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]. It matches better the idea of the Riddle'Thar being a "way of life" more than a religion and its adepts as drug-users.
The Mane could also have some aspects of a sex guru. I remember that MK has wrote that Vivec, Reman, Dibella and the Mane could be in a porn. We could use not something as trash but write texts about something like "carnal knowledge". Or something more spiritual like [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] or [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.].

My only problem is the Clan Mothers. I still can't see how to use them in game. They aren't a sort of ashlander wise-women living in a yurt.
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Re: Elsweyr religions

Post by Ryu Hayabusa on Thu 07 Mar 2013, 1:30 am

I think your idea for the Tiddle'Thar is excellent. It encompasses the description of a way of life and fits perfectly with what we know.

A spritual text of "carnal knowledge" can only serve to enhance the realism. I love the idea. Perhaps a text with a broad reach that goes farther than the Mane's...knowledge of spiritual pleasure. Very Happy

The Clan Mothers do present a certain challenge, don't they? I have tried to find a good comparison in real life but have found nothing as of yet. It seems that we may want to "lore fit" this all together. Perhaps they have a special basin of the Lunar Lattice in the middle of their dwelling place. It is probable that they could simply take samples of the Moon Cane (easy term for it) to the basin in order to extract the Moon Sugar. This helps explain part of what they do. Their beliefs are easy enough since you kindly explained above. Daedra, Aedra, and deities around Elsweyr seem like the greatest possibilities. As for their role in the game? Prove yourself, and you may learn the secrets of extracting Moon Sugar yourself. Like Stahlrim on Solstheim. The main quest there requires you to learn of the process, perhaps Elsweyr can draw some inspiration. Or, if nothing else, the Moon Sugar you extract can be called "Fresh Moon Sugar" and could serve as a special ingredient needed for many things throughout Elsweyr. And to fully solve the problem, perhaps the Clan Mothers live in a secretive village in the forest? It could be in the trees, on the ground, or even under the roots. There could be two or three males for future Clan Mothers living alongside them. You have to make children somehow!

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Re: Elsweyr religions

Post by Le Grimacier on Fri 08 Mar 2013, 2:18 pm

I think characters living under the roots or inside the trunks of trees fit more Valenwood.

I can't find where I saw that Clan Mother are responsible for the moon-sugar collect, but I found something else:
From Redguard
Mighty Tiber Septim bids fair to become clan-mother to them all, Hammerfell included.
To be a clan-mother is to bring protection? Protection of the body by leading fighters and protection of the mind by keeping history?

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Re: Elsweyr religions

Post by Ryu Hayabusa on Tue 12 Mar 2013, 11:12 am

I suck at interpretation...

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Re: Elsweyr religions

Post by Le Grimacier on Sat 27 Apr 2013, 2:01 pm

From PGE 1rst Edition:
[...]each "breed" of khajiit has its own patron deity.
You have 16 common breeds of Khajiit and I've discussed [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] about 8 others forms based on rare astronomical events.
So the common breeds could be linked to the Daedras and the 8 rares forms linked to the Divines. That could be a reason why the Suthay-raht are called "Ja'Khajiit" who is also the name of Merrunz. We could find which Daedra correspond to which breed, it could be useful to determine how the Khajiit are organized. It could also be used to explain politics tensions and curses/blessing used for the background of NPCs.

In the case of the rare forms, they could be seen as avatar of the Divines. From the books, Alkosh is supposed to be appeared at least two times: In Varieties of Faith, he had repelled a pogrom of Pelinal (but it's just a rumor) and in Tale of Dro'Zira, he had led the Khajiit in Skyrim against the Nords but was defeated by Ra'Wulfharth and his "Lorkhaj's roar" (but again it's just a tale). It is interesting to note that Khajiit are never mentioned in "official" chronicles. Even when Pelinal, defender of the humanity, bane of the mers, knight of the Eight, etc, had his ass kicked, History has "forgotten" that.

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Re: Elsweyr religions

Post by Le Grimacier on Wed 22 May 2013, 6:14 pm

Some ideas about the imperial cult:
Elsweyr is a country too strange, too different and too dangerous for the imperials. They get homesick quickly. The cult is supposed to comfort them and to remind to the legion they are the hand of the Emperor. Imperials need to feel the presence of the Empire that's why they worship Talos and his bloodline. The altar that you could only find in imperial forts could be based on the dragonfires in the imperial city. Priests have to maintain a flame lit like to keep the spirit and the influence of the Empire alive. It protect them from the "external" influences.

Some ideas about the clan mothers:
Clan mothers could act as "gardeners of the khajiit" (reference to Hermaeus Mora who is the gardener of men). They are doctors, teachers, advisors and inquisitors. In Pellitine they control production and distribution of the moon-sugar so nobody can become greedy. They ensure that Anequina could have its share and, in Anequina, they ensure that the warriors thank them and protect them in exchange. They take care of the education of the children kittens and that could conflict with the Mage Guild. They know stories about ancient cities, hidden paths and lost treasures. The know herbs and remedies to cure illnesses. They decide who is wrong and who is right. Who is honorable and who is shameful. They could investigate a crime and leads warriors to punish the culprit. As a last resort, they can choose to exile a khajiit out of Elsweyr and the word of a clan mother is shared by all clan mothers. Only the Mane and the Gods are above them and even them listen to what they say. There are many conflict between Clan Mothers and the Legion.
In-game, they are considered as healers/priestesses/scholar. They sell potions, ingredients and spells of healing and restoration and give advices/tips/stories on the background of Elsweyr. They don't have a hierarchy (except master/apprentice) and you will find them by group.

Some ideas about the Avatars (see previous post):
Avatars are the reason why khajiit don't make difference between Daedric Princes and Divines. The only difference it's that the first are on the other side of the Ja'Khajay (the Dro'mathra) and the last are on this side (have to find a Khajiit name). But you could meet them, they are powerful beings, they have a changing appearance, they can be killed (but it's difficult) and will be "reborn", and they can even change sex. Having quests for the avatars like you could have for the daedric princes could be fun. Instead to speak to a statue you speak directly to the avatar.

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Re: Elsweyr religions

Post by Ryu Hayabusa on Fri 24 May 2013, 2:05 am

So, we would provide lore stating their backgrounds as educators, "Sugar Lords", and Judges, and In-Game, they act as healers and the like? Seems legit. I think this could work nicely.

And...avatars are sort of like the old Ghostgate fella?

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Re: Elsweyr religions

Post by Le Grimacier on Sun 26 May 2013, 4:48 pm

Clan Mothers don't care about moon-sugar economics, it's the role of the Kings and clan leaders who form a sort of sugar-based aristocracy, especially in Pellitine. And it has nothing to do with money. Clan Mothers just ensure that sugarcanes grow, that the moon-sugar is not wasted too much and that everyone could have his share. If they find that someone try to gather all the moon-sugar for himself, they hunt him because he became a threat for all the Khajiit.
The "sugaristocrats" influence is determined by how much they can distribute moon-sugar to the rest of their clan. A coup d'├ętat happens when a young Khajiit find a way to bring more moon-sugar than the old King or when the old King can't deliver enough moon-sugar to his clanmates. As you can see, for Khajiit, the kingship isn't necessarily hereditary. The son/daughter only inherits the crown if the way the bloodline distributes the moon-sugar is unsurpassed.

Avatars are unique Khajiit whose aspect and powers are influenced by the 8 Divines. Khajiit think they are the Divines incarnated. For example, Alkosh could be a giant golden lion and a deadly warrior. S'rendarr could be a gobelin-like khajiit (he's the Runt God) but compassionate, etc...
Each of them is born in a normal family and, once acknowledged, they are celebrated and transported to their respective "new home", a Temple where every previous avatar lived. Because there is no such thing as priests or servants, they could have followers, Khajiit who willingly help them. For example, Mara could have children and her "home" could be like an orphanage.

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Re: Elsweyr religions

Post by Ryu Hayabusa on Wed 29 May 2013, 9:20 am

Now that makes sense. I never get concepts on the first try...


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Re: Elsweyr religions

Post by Le Grimacier on Wed 29 May 2013, 1:34 pm

Me too. I didn't intend to mean so much at first. When I try to explain myself, I find new things that fit what I previously said.
So be critical for it force me to develop ideas. bounce

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